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Doesn't seem like any project managers are on this site anymore. Heavy IT presence and clearly not managers or leaders. Is this site evolving to IT-centric concepts?

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    Possible duplicate of This site feels too software-development centric
    – Todd A. Jacobs Mod
    May 14, 2016 at 5:35
  • Related: Should this be an Agile/Scrum Questions stack exchange?
    – Todd A. Jacobs Mod
    May 14, 2016 at 5:36
  • pm.stackexchange.com/questions/18313/…
    – RubberDuck
    May 19, 2016 at 20:55
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    Hey David, do you have any thoughts on how to attract more PM's? Do you have examples of good PM questions the community can look at to try and understand the types of questions you're most interested in? Perhaps sharing those questions and answers with colleagues, clients, and stakeholders can help draw in more expertise?
    – jmort253
    May 20, 2016 at 10:57
  • In MHO this is a crucial question. I am trying to give some suggestion about @jmort253 concern. Project Managers (agile, waterfall, etc.) want to exchange experience, tips, and recommendations about what is the best practices or tools for doing something. My understanding is that this kind of debate is limited due some site rules (or a strict interpretation of some rules), such like shopping question. Here I posted a question related to it.
    – David Leal
    Jul 11, 2017 at 14:24

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I partially agree with you. Partially because my feeling is that there's a lot of Agile-oriented discussion @ PMSE, and Agile is more often used in Software development (although could be successfully used in other areas as well).

Is it a problem? I don't think so, so long we're addressing the questions the audience is asking. We'd have a problem if we are answering questions only from an Agile-oriented perspective and mindset (which I don't think it'd be the case).

Cheers

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    Does agile replace PM? Seems to me agile is a SW development methodology but does not replace PM. There seems to be a lot of agile mantras that are inconsistent with PM and management approaches in general.
    – David Espina
    May 24, 2016 at 11:11
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    I don't think agile would replace PM at all - they are covering different purposes, IMHO.
    – Tiago Cardoso Mod
    May 24, 2016 at 11:13
  • I think the question is valid regardless of the Project Lifecycle type
    – David Leal
    Jul 11, 2017 at 14:29
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PMSE Exists to Answer Questions Asked

In answer to David's original question, disparaging IT project management as somehow not being "real" project management is not productive. The site supports the existence of many types of project management in any number of domains. There's nothing stopping manufacturing or construction PMs from posting questions here, except perhaps the culture in those domains of practice.

If you have questions about non-IT project management, ask them. Otherwise, the people who do have questions (many of which will be about creative or knowledge-based projects like software development) will dominate simply because they are actively participating in the community. It isn't exclusionary; it's simply a matter of who's showing up and asking questions.

Agile Project Management Is "A Real Thing"

In further response to this comment:

Does agile replace PM? Seems to me agile is a SW development methodology but does not replace PM. There seems to be a lot of agile mantras that are inconsistent with PM and management approaches in general.

I would point out that "agile" isn't a framework or a methodology. However, agile frameworks like Scrum or Kanban are project management methodologies that can successfully replace more traditional controls in a variety of domains besides software. See Toyota Production System as an example.

Assuming that "inconsistent with PM" really means inconsistent with legacy models of project management, this is really a different issue. Plenty of agile projects exist within a larger governance framework, and there are still types of projects where non-agile frameworks are used, and some where they are even a better fit. As long as there is a valid use case for them, project management methodologies will continue to coexist and even proliferate. One size does not fit all.

However, methodologies do have lifecycles, and are subject to the Darwinism of the marketplaces of business and of ideas. Just because a methodology is new doesn't mean it's better, but just because a methodology has been around a long time doesn't mean it must continue to be practiced. In my opinion, there are domains where legacy project management techniques will dominate for a long time to come, but the writing is on the wall for non-agile systems in manufacturing, research, business process re-engineering, creative development, and (of course) software development.

Summary

If you don't think Scrum, Kanban, or Lean Systems are real project management frameworks, this post won't change your mind. However, I have personally managed projects solely with agile frameworks, and find them significantly more effective than traditional methods in all the myriad domains and sectors where I work. YMMV.

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    I don't think I said IT PM is not real PM, nor implied it. I am noticing, however, a dismissal of other PM concepts by those heavily involved in Agile as being wrong, old school, or something else. I see the opposite occurring here. I have no issue with Agile methods or anything else that is new. I like to see evolution in this area. However, I do see those that follow Agile dismissing everything else wholesale.
    – David Espina
    May 31, 2016 at 12:54
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    @DavidEspina "Doesn't seem like any project managers are on this site anymore" and "There seems to be a lot of agile mantras that are inconsistent with PM and management approaches in general" are direct quotes from you. The use of "PM" as distinct from agile frameworks connotes that other frameworks delegitimizes them as project management frameworks. I address this in my post above, while taking some pains to assume that it wasn't your direct intent. It's okay to point out cognitive bias, but it's important that we all remember that we are all project management practitioners.
    – Todd A. Jacobs Mod
    May 31, 2016 at 17:31
  • The folks participating here, I think, refer to themselves as scrum master or something like that. On IT projects that I work, where we use Agile for product development, our projects are much larger than that. The development team is just one of many teams that are engaged so agile is only one method at play. By PM, I am talking about the individual managing the entire team, which includes other components like training, org design, org change, business process design, documentation or knowledge management development, PMO, etc.
    – David Espina
    May 31, 2016 at 17:38
  • So my intent it NOT to delegitimatize agile. I think it is a fine method for product development and enhancement. But I am talking about the larger project, where I don't think agile lives. I have never seen an agile approach on, say, organization design. Not sure how that would / could work.
    – David Espina
    May 31, 2016 at 17:39
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    @DavidEspina I agree that it isn't always a perfect fit for such projects, but I am personally experienced with using scaled agile and lean to do business process re-engineering. I'm definitely not saying that the average Scrum practitioner could do it well, or that Scrum is a better fit than some other framework for such projects, but agile frameworks really aren't just for software development. It just often happens that software is where the most vocal elements of the agile community are. :)
    – Todd A. Jacobs Mod
    May 31, 2016 at 17:43
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    I'm gonna chip in here as I find this subject fascinating- though perhaps we should move it to Chat... I tend to align to David's view as, aside from this one instance of CG, I see every other Agile practitioner acting as if the Agile software delivery is the whole of the project and they just don't seem to "get" that there is a world of project delivery outside and wrapped around the software delivery. CG seems to be a lone exception to this so far and therefore I would like to explore this more if possible? Is Scaled Agile a thing, or a convenient shorthand? Google is my friend, will check
    – Marv Mills
    Jun 1, 2016 at 10:07
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    Actually @DavidEspina, there are thoughts from the Agile community about org design. Conways Law comes to mind (Software architecture ends up looking like your org, so structure your org to look like your desired architecture). Michael Feathers has talked about Full Spectrum teams/developers, where devs do "business" things (like market research) and they teach their business partners about code. The Spotify model also comes to mind. I wouldn't be so quick to write off Agile Software Development. Just as we shouldn't be quick to write off traditional PM.
    – RubberDuck
    Jul 9, 2016 at 18:00
  • It's interesting @RubberDuck that, as you discuss org design, you are focused on developers and they may participate in business things or teach code. I am talking about the big organization design, the functional business units, sales, legal, HR or whatever the new term is for that. IT folks seems to be very IT centric, as if the business is there because of them, not the other way around. And Agile seems to follow this, at least in my observation working for the largest IT company in the world.
    – David Espina
    Jul 9, 2016 at 20:15
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    Oh Christ @DavidEspina... I was trying to be friendly. Never mind.
    – RubberDuck
    Jul 9, 2016 at 20:16
  • You are right, @rubberduck, I was out of line. My apologies. Been annoyed with this topic so I read into your message incorrectly.
    – David Espina
    Jul 9, 2016 at 23:56

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